#KetchupTalks- "Court Kacheri is very relatable and the story of every house," says Ashish Verma

Ashish Verma delves into his process of bringing a reluctant lawyer to life in Court Kacheri, his reunion with TVF and the universal need for validation.

Ashish Verma, known for bringing relatable authenticity to his ‘everyman’ characters in films like Sui Dhaga, and Atrangi Re, among others, is set to captivate audiences with his latest legal drama, Court Kacheri. In the show, Verma steps into the shoes of Param, a reluctant lawyer who finds himself lost in the towering shadow of his father's legacy. The series also marks a significant reunion for Verma with the creators at TVF. We had the opportunity to speak to this versatile actor about his on-screen dynamic with veteran actor Pavan Malhotra, the show's exploration of a dysfunctional father-son relationship, and his process for crafting characters that resonate deeply with viewers. Besides this, the actor also shares interesting insights from his stint as a casting director and how it helped him shape his approach towards his art. 

Read all about it here!

Court Kacheri is a legal drama with a blend of humor and family conflict. Tell us how you balanced the serious and humorous elements in your portrayal of Param!

I just played according to the situation in this show. It was there on the paper, I just tried putting an extension of my personality, a part of me in the characters which I played, and a lot of it was on the paper itself, so you just play the situation and then things start to fall into place.

The show is created by TVF who you've worked with before on projects like Inmates and Not Fit. What was it like to reunite with the team for a different genre?

It was great. This collaboration was long due. Arunabh Kumar has been a guy who has been backing me, I think Inmates was for 8-9 years before, if not more. And we were waiting with the correct script and the correct opportunity, and the correct moment to collaborate again. And then Court Kacheri happened, and it was directed by Ruchir (Arun), who was also my batch-mate from FTII. So it's almost like home ground.

How is Court Kacheri different from other films or shows exploring court-room dramas?

It is very different in the sense that it is about a father-son relationship in a legal background. It's about the dysfunctional relationship between the father and the son, and the eventual possibility of healing, which is coming out in the form of rebellion of not being what his father is, and that being a lawyer in this case, and also, it raises the question about right and wrong, about justice and injustice, what's right, and what's justice? Justice for one might be injustice for the other, and how, life is not black and white, and there are a lot of greys. Life throws you curveballs in which you do not know what to do, or what is the morally correct thing to do. So it raises such questions and talks about these complexities. That's what makes it beautiful.

Also Read: Court Kacheri review: A wholesome courtroom drama that hits the right notes!

Like you mentioned, your character is a sort of rebel. How much could you relate to him? Also, as an artist, do you think it is important to have a spirit of rebellion? 

Well, I didn't have to rebel. My parents were quite supportive. My mother is a lawyer. My father was a doctor. They were supportive- ‘Beta, you want to be an actor? Go for it!’ That's a bold call. So there was no resistance at all from them. But now my mom could not have been prouder. However, it's very relatable and the story of every house. I have a lot of people and friends who are not able to pursue their dreams, and do things under pressure that they don't want to, because that’s a safer option. The rebellion that you are talking about comes much later in life. You see a lot of corporate employees leaving the job suddenly. They're done with that 9 to 5 routine, and they're like, “Nahi yaar abhi nahi karna ye sab, ab bahut ho gaya.” And there are a lot of such people even in TVF. TVF is a company made by engineers. Arunabh himself was an engineer, and most of them are trained engineers, and suddenly they just pivoted and did what they always wanted to do as children- tell stories.

As far as the importance of the spirit to rebel for an artist is concerned, I feel it is important to raise the right questions, not only for artists but also for citizens. Yes, a lot of people watch your work, your voice reaches a lot of people, so asking questions is very important for any country or society to grow. So I think it is every citizen's responsibility. That’s why our political set-up is such that we have an opposition. However, I don't believe in rebellion without a cause. It does not mean anything, but as long as you're aware of all that’s happening- inequality, or injustice taking place in society, or anywhere, it is very important to raise questions and stand against it. 

Your character, Param, is a young man grappling with his father's legacy. How did you prepare for this role, and what aspects of his internal struggle did you find most compelling?

The legal setup felt familiar because my mom is a lawyer. I have been around lawyers right since my childhood- my grandfather, my mother. I’ve been to courts many times as a kid to experience that setup. So that wasn’t particularly challenging. I knew what not to do. I didn’t want to portray it the way we see it in our films, and wanted to bring a certain authenticity that I have seen in my life. As far as Param’s internal struggle is concerned, that deep need for validation, that deep need of being seen and valued, is such a humane and universal emotion and need. I think we all went through it. So that's the deep-down crisis of this character. He just wants to hear from his father that beta I’m there,and that is so relatable. Of course, anyone would relate to that.

Pavan Malhotra plays your character's father in the series. Can you talk about the on-screen and off-screen dynamic between the two of you? How did that help shape the father-son relationship in the show?

Pavan sir is almost like a student, hat's how he is. He's always learning and he's always working for the show, for the film, and whatever is there on the papers. He would work for the scene rather than working in isolation for himself. He's very aware of what's required, how much is required, and when it's required. So he's very comfortable. This often happens in films, actors often perform their scenes, give their close-ups, and leave the sets. But that’s not the correct way to work. But Pavan sir is there for every scene, every moment. Off-screen he is like a mentor. Whenever any of my work was released in the past, Pavan sir would always call me to say that he saw my work and that I did a good job, and would often give me tips that it's a game of longevity, keep yourself sane, keep yourself fit. It was a pleasure working with him. 

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You have a reputation of bringing depth to 'everyman' characters. What is your approach to making these roles relatable and memorable for the audience?

I play according to the situation and whatever is written on the paper, I try to understand what is required of me and the ‘sur’ of the story, and why I have been cast in it. Once you have this clarity, things start to fall into place automatically. I try to bring in my lived experiences. When I did Saas Bahu Flamingo, that was a different experience, because I was playing a drug addict, and I've never done drugs before. But I have seen people and had a lot of reference points, and also brought my imagination into play. Imagination also plays an important part in all this, you imagine and design a character like that, and I always try to break the pattern. If there is a normal way of saying a line, I try to bring in a different way while retaining the emotions. These are the little things that, as actors you keep on trying while staying well within the boundaries of the script. 

The trailer of Court Kacheri has a very interesting dialogue about a 'plan'. As a professional in an industry as uncertain as this, what has this experience taught you about planning?

I was watching an interview of Mr. Salim Khan where he held a hanky by its two ends and said, 'One end is birth, the other is death. When both aren’t in your control, what could you possibly control?' I’m sure even your plans might have failed miserably at times. When I would give auditions, I would overthink a lot. I would plan that the producer or the director wants this, and I would try to outthink them. I would give auditions and never get selected. Gradually, I started letting go of it and realised why I took up this profession in the first place. I undertook it because I enjoyed it. I was doing theatre during my college days, the audience would watch me and I would love it so much. I would even do it in the absence of audiences because it would give us immense joy. Me, Abhishek Banerjee, Mohammed Zeeshan Ayub, and Divyendu Sharma would do theatre together because we used to enjoy it . But when I started to overburden myself with trying to out-think people, making a plan everyday, and things kept on going away. When I went back to square one and started enjoying myself, finding joy and peace in my work irrespective of the result, that's when things started to fall into place. So now I just go with the flow and be in the present and enjoy the moment.

What determines the success of an artist in this industry? Luck, talent or both?

I believe the best actor is not the most successful actor historically. The best director historically is not the most successful or the famous one. We're in the business of cinemas. There are a lot of factors that come into play when it comes to all this. The other thing is, if you are receiving the audience’s love. Yes, people value your craft, but has your craft connected with your audience? That changes the entire game. If your audience connects with you and that’s not entirely dependent on your craft or how good of an actor you are, how good of a performer you are. There is a likeability factor. Do people like you? That’s what makes people a star, when an actor forms a connection with his or her viewer. That’s the difference between an actor and a star. People appreciate actors, but a star is what they desire to become, “Yaar main Shah Rukh Khan ban’na chahta hoon!” Of course Shah sir must have worked extremely hard, but I can show you 1000 such people whom we don't even know of who also work extremely hard but. since it's the business of cinema, there are a lot of factors involved.

How do you present yourself, how do you pitch yourself to people, and how do you make your producers believe that you are bankable and how disciplined you are, and how accountable you are. Rest is all luck. You did a particular film, you worked well in it, but the film didn’t work. In another case, if your film worked but was your character good enough to leave an impact? You worked equally hard, but then comes the other factor of how it's received, when it has been released, who is the producer backing it, and what is the channel? Look at the shows Sony LIV or TVF are producing. So it's great for people like me, people who look a certain way, who are not classically the people that you see in films as heroes or main leads and protagonists, they're getting opportunities and we're telling stories which strike a chord. So you need backing. You need people who back you. It's purely a luck factor, but it's a combination of a lot of other factors. 

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Beyond acting, you've also worked as a casting director. How has that experience informed your own process as an actor?

I was 21-22 years old in FTTII and wanted to come to Bombay, and I did not have the money to come. My batchmate's then partner was making a film in Punjabi. He said,  Ashish, you're an actor, do you want to come on board and take the workshop for actors there? He was majorly working with non-actors, he needed my help in instructing and directing them. I agreed and came on board. That film got a national award. And when I saw them perform when I directed them, I understood, they don't have any pressure to perform. They're so nuanced, and the stuff actors were doing felt like acting. So it's the thing of being and doing nothing. Just being in a moment, that’s what the process taught me. It's about expressing, rather than getting into a performative zone, just being is very important, you know, so that is something that all the actors need to learn. That we all just need to be. Rather than playing to the gallery or performing always. This camera is such a powerful tool. Cinema is such a powerful medium. The camera can see through you- Aapke anddar tak jhaankta hai vo. 

To end this conversation on a fun note, if you were the casting director of Court Kacheri in the 70s, who would you like to cast in your role and that of Pavan Malhotra's?

I’d cast Utpal Dutt in Pavan Malhotra’s role. He's outstanding. The imposing presence and a level of quirk that he would get to the role, that'll be great. As far as my character is concerned, a lot of people would have done a fantastic job - Naseer sir would have been so good, the angst that he used to get in his roles was commendable. Also, if Om Puri and Amrish Puri’s father-son dynamics in Ardh Satyacould be recreated here, that would be a great cast. They're such fine actors. It's all endless. 

Court Kacheri is now streaming on SonyLIV!